Jacs takeover: Chat with Paul Rimmer
Good morning, Welcome back to Scott Blair's One Day at a Time podcast taken over by me at Turtle. My name's Jackie, and this morning we are talking to Doctor Paul Rimmer, who is an absolute legend, both as a coach and also as an expert in nutrition. Paul, good morning.
Speaker 2:Good morning Jackie, thank you for that wonderful introduction there. It's nice to hear your wonderful voice.
Speaker 1:Thank you. So I have had a bunch of questions from different turtles and then also some ones that we're asking all the coaches. And the first question that people want to know is what does a nutrition coach eat for breakfast?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a really good question. For me, I'm not a big breakfast person typically. And again, it a lot depends on how busy I am at the morning. I have to be quite strategic with my in with a lot of coaching and calls. I mean, typically speaking, maybe something like oats, oats if I've got time, eggs if I've got lots of time, but typically the weekend, I like to cook a little bit more of a weekend when I have a bit more free time.
Speaker 2:So, know, things like scrambled eggs on on toast and maybe a little bit of avocado in there. Classic Aussie breakfast. And then, usually for weekday, it can depend like, for example, this morning being up early, didn't have much time. So, you know, I will grab a protein shake and something like that or maybe something like a a yogurt, a yogurt with some fruits and berries. Something quick and easy for me is massively important.
Speaker 2:You know, convenience can be healthy and being as busy as as I can be. Yeah, I I'd say that that's typically. If there's a the variety in there but something that's quick, easy, and convenient is kind of where I normally go to except at weekends when, you know, like to to crack out the old pots and pans and make a bit of a fuss.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Do you know one of the big learnings I heard from you was how to make those convenient quick choices that also still enable me to achieve my goals. Is that something that you find lots of people struggle with?
Speaker 2:I think yeah, I think a lot of people there's a few different things. I mean, I'm a big advocate of people understanding and being able to cook themselves. The reason for that is simple because as as an Ed one, it's it's nice to be able to do and I think, know, it's it's if you can make cooking a communal thing, you know, it's a nice shared experience and something that people can take part in but it also educates a lot around food amounts, food choices, food types. There's more to cooking than simply, you know, just following a recipe. You know, you can actually learn a lot in terms of how you can then around nutrition so you can carry that out into the the big bag world.
Speaker 2:So, you know, you are eating out in restaurants, you do want to be more aware of what goes into things just as an educational resource. But I also appreciate that people are busy and it's no and we can't just we can't just cook like big complex meals all the time. So, I do think there's a balance to be had. I think the key thing a lot of on the other side of that spectrum, sorry, a key thing a lot of people struggle with is this idea that like convenience food can't be healthy. Know, it's like, oh, well, if something goes in the microwave, then, then, that's inherently unhealthy and you know, microwave cooking is is safe.
Speaker 2:It's proven to be safe to some some people who are fearful around that. So, for me, you know, I'm not going to sit here and be a hypocrite like I do a lot of my nutrition through the day in particular until I get home, and I do have time to cook at the evening is convenience based, you know, microwave meals. There's a few brands out there now, even in your main supermarkets, where yes, they're not the cheapest things in the world. But actually, on a per meal basis, if you buy them in bulk, they're still cheaper than your average typical supermarket or coffee shop chain lunch deal. So, I think that if people can get great, you build better nutrition in their lives in the most efficient way possible.
Speaker 2:That's a big battle. But it's also just being aware that if everything you're eating and being consumed is completely pre packaged, pre prepared, that's great because everything's weighed and measured, massively convenient, calorie controlled, you know exactly what it gets on the tin within reason. The problem then becomes is then how do we extrapolate that out and navigate in the world of going out for dinner or going out with friends or whatever that might be and then that can cause some people some fear because, you know, particularly with the promotion of tracking and things that we do, that it's like, oh, well, I don't know what any of this is. Whereas if we cooked a bit more, and we were a bit more aware of that, then, you know, then, then, like, we've got a bit more confidence that we're making more correct assumptions around our nutrition and stuff. So, yeah, convenience can be healthy.
Speaker 2:Of course, it can. But I think, I think people, if you, if you're not a good cook or people don't like cooking, even just from a perspective of going through a few basic recipes just so you know an idea of portions is is a good idea.
Speaker 1:And one of the things you guys have taught me. So the two fold use macro program and there's a great app. If you haven't got it, you can buy on the APP store which helps you manage the macros but. One of the things I've learned from you is being able to create those routines or those habits of a few kind of quick convenience grabs that can help me achieve my goals and still be within macros without restricting on any food. I'm just really interested with this new app and the turtle program, why did you and the turtle team decide to take macros on and what's different about your approach to sort of the MyFitness powers of this world?
Speaker 2:I think there's a few things in there as well. I mean, we've tried to get rid of some of the, well, let's call them idiosyncrasies of MyFitnessPal in terms of food accuracy issues and things like that as well, because MyFitnessPal is great because it's got such a wide repository of foods, but a lot of those are user generated, they're not validated. So there's there's sometimes errors in there and those errors can be quite significant and and frustrating for a lot of people if they're concerned with kind of data accuracy in this concept of data quality. So the first thing when we were trying to sort of take all of our coaching brains and put them to an app was okay. What things are frustrating for me from a coaching perspective, then, and also from someone who's used, you know, tracking gaps historically, in different, you know, pretty much everyone that's out there, what things frustrated me, it was the data quality, the data accuracy, you know, the lack of validation of foods, that aspect of things was something that we were really keen to develop.
Speaker 2:And yes, in the short term, that means that there's probably not the wide variety of foods on there that you find at MyFitnessPal, but the trade off with that increased accuracy and increased information at a deeper level of nutrition that we can then understand and move forward with. I think the big separator between what we've done and not just MyFitnessPal but other other apps that will look at weight data and weight management data and then adjust calorie intake on the basis of kind of what's happening with weight changes is we've really challenged that perception because you know people can be losing body fat mass and weight can be staying fairly stable depending on how lean they are at the starting point. You know there's there's other things that influence weight that we really do encourage people to learn and and educate themselves on so they don't worry if their weight isn't dropping that week. So things like menstrual cycle fluctuations in water weight and stress and eating certain foods that are salty and you know travel and lots of other things that can influence weight. So in terms of adjustment based on more factors than simply what's happening on a scale weight that we can not include things like you know accuracy of data and things as well and I think that's really where in terms of if I was to try and take my brain as a nutrition coach and put that onto paper, that's really what we try to do and say, okay, well, am I just going to adjust someone's calorie intake, their macro intake on a day to day basis or a week to week basis based around this idea of what they haven't lost weight.
Speaker 2:Well, I wouldn't do that professionally and nor would any good fitness professional out there. So, why do so many of the apps that are out there do that? Is there a way that we can create some sort of fail safe systems like, oh, we noticed some changes in clothes, you know, what other things might be going on before we start pulling the trigger and adjusting things. So, just to bring that back around a little bit for anyone who might be listening to this who is really unsure what what macros are and flexible dieting is. Macros are basically carbs that's a pretty calorie intake from the food that you have.
Speaker 2:So if you track your food, you track your calories, you track your carbs, fats, your proteins, and from that you'll know how much food you're consuming each day. What we tend to do is then we use some of our calculations and our algorithms to estimate how many calories need for a specific goal. So, it's not just about weight management. It might be muscle gain. It might be to maintain weight or whatever it might be and then through tracking food on a daily basis, weekly basis, and then, over time with other bits of information that we've just discussed there, then we we can then create a picture of, okay, how you respond in terms of weight and in terms of body composition over that period of time, which basically at the heart of it, the principle is energy balance.
Speaker 2:So, if we consume more calories than we expend through end through day to day activities and exercise, then, we will gain it and if we eat less than we expend, we will then lose, we'll lose weight. By weight in this situation here, I'm talking more in the context of fluctuate. You There's lots of things out there where people will try and convince you that energy balance doesn't matter. The reality is that it does. Been around since the concept's been around since the dawn and advent of nutritional scientists pretty much.
Speaker 2:It's never been this proven yet despite the best efforts and some facts that are out there to try and you know make it about other things. That's not to say other things aren't important. You know? Like our stress and our emotional state can influence can influence our our desire and our our willingness to eat and you know hunger and cravings and all of that kind of stuff. And yes our hormones at the at the group of things can influence our drivers to eat.
Speaker 2:You know I'm sure a lot of a lot of women out there who may be listening to this will have experienced like increased cravings around certain phases of their menstrual cycle. So we try and factor all of that into the app really. So we're still sticking to the fundamental tenants of the key principle of fat loss and weight management. But we're also trying to take a step a bit more holistically around, you know, how is stress affecting that menstrual cycle tracking, stress tracking, mood state. And then the reason that we decided to, the reason that the app was based because a lot of that stuff can be done automatically with, you know, a little bit of clever clever programming from our team which has been amazingly done and then, that allows from a coaching perspective to focus on the other stuff which is which is the stuff that you can't you you can't really open up.
Speaker 2:So, know, the interpersonal relationships, how we deal with emotions, you know, each individual's experiences around what's helped them, what hasn't helped them. Know, we discussed at the very start of this around things that I do in terms of systems and convenience food. And I'm trying to help people create this framework, which tracking and macro tracking and flexible biotin is at the heart of, you know, getting getting rid of a lot of myths around foods and a lot of fear and guilt and shame around foods that some people suffer with and the misinformation that's out there is we spend a lot of time doing two components which is, you know, education, and the education and mindset related stuff. And then the community element as well, which we try to build around that, you know, through our membership platforms and access to genuine experts and genuine coaches who have good solid credentials that you know have got a very I would say coherent value system about wanting to help people in the right way. And at the heart of that macro tracking within itself.
Speaker 2:You know that ticks the fundamental boxes that allows us to give us confidence to give advice on a certain case by case situation. But also facilitates you you as you as one of our members.
Speaker 1:One of the things I have really learned from Turtle and from you and and appreciate it is a the emotional quotient of nutrition is is not really present anymore for me, because through learning and training with yourself and through the turtle APP and program. It's more you once said to me at the very beginning Jackie it's just a data point it's not good or bad it's just a piece of data that then. Creates the whole picture and what I loved about it is, I felt for the first time that I was really understood as an individual so even though you know there's all these myths around how many calories you should have a day or. You know what kind of crash diets, you should do, but for the first time, even though it was a big program I felt like I was individually understood and being heard and and all the different aspects that made me me, was suddenly relevant. And I was wondering, Paul, in terms of you mentioned there, you know, similar values, shared purpose.
Speaker 1:What is it about coaching that you love?
Speaker 2:That's a really interesting question. Think there's two ways I approach this. One is, I guess, I enjoy coaching. It's like it's an obvious answer to say it's because I like helping people. But the reason I like helping people is because you know, if we take it back to neurophysiology and I won't get too technical on this, know, having a purpose, having something to aim at, delivering something good into the world and being useful makes us feel good and I can't think, I can't think of too many things in the world at the moment that are more pressing as a challenge to our health than things around, you know, overweight, obesity, the population increases, the the food environment, the sorry, population increases in obesity right through all age ranges as well, you know?
Speaker 2:And for me, you know, health has been something that's always been a massive positive thing in my life. It's allowed me to navigate the world in the way that which I would desire. You know, I've always been into my health and fitness and I've always, you know, so my sins, I've tried some of these wacky diets that you hear out there when I was younger and trying to get particularly from a particularly more from a kind of like athletic performance and bodybuilding kind of world I originally came from. And then and I guess as I've kind of developed my own thinking, the things that I've noticed most of most give me joy in life or when like I'm helping other people with their problems. And I think that's true of most people.
Speaker 2:You know, we do get a kind of warm, fuzzy feeling inside. And I think as a topic area, personally, it's something I've always been interested in. I think personally because sports been such a big part of my life and nutrition is such a big part of sport, particularly within physique sports and strength sports, and all sports actually, but particularly the increased focus on in those sports, that it kind of tied in my own personal interest and my own desires and the things that have brought me massive benefits being younger, like, you know, being fit, being strong, being a part of team environments, the sense of accomplishment from victory and winning things in the sense of the ability to develop self discipline and to accept failure and to learn to deal with failure and improve from failure. All of those things have helped me from a sporting environment to kind of into my professional life. And then I guess the component of that then tied in with the deeper feeling of when I help somebody overcome a barrier and the opportunity to do that to thousands, with thousands and thousands of people, Just it's kind of like, you know, little micro wins every single day for me every time someone gets something or understand something or every time someone's relationship with food improves a little bit or something, some fear is taken away from eating or nutrition or exercise or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:And then within that as well, like you said, the the capacity to work with individuals is something that that I still do to this day even though we do work on a lot of group projects and it's something that I'll always try and keep my hand in and one of the things that we try to do through the kind of the turtle program, the turtle method with the app is help people to learn their own individual data, which saves us a lot of time from a coaching perspective. You know, we try and educate on that. We will give individual feedback, you know, through emails and stuff required. But then that allows us to then in the wider community through our Zoom calls, through the stuff that Scott, myself, and Dean, and all the other coaches that we bring in to do stuff around mindset and understanding behaviors and systems and even the wider education stuff around like the book clubs and things we do and the community exercise stuff, you know, the yoga and everything else is it's more there to try and give people an opportunity to have as much support that they can still get the opportunity to ask individual questions, but then doing that within a spirit of safe community framework.
Speaker 2:And one of the things I would say is changing in the industry now for the better. It's, know, we've been a massive proponent of and we've pushed for a long time, is the idea around the behavioral and psychological aspects. It's not just a case of go and track your calories off you go and then go and, you know, not that we'll just do it, you know, it's not hard, just do it. But I also think that a lot of people fall into that trap as well of thinking that because the fundamental principles are simple, the application of those principles are simple and it's not the same thing. And and I think that a lot of people learn that that it's okay.
Speaker 2:Well, there's my macros and I'm tracking these things up. I'm doing this but like, why is it so hard on these days when I'm stressed? Why is it this food triggers this overeating response as well? You know, health, you know, I'm a performance nutritionist, I guess, by trade. I've got a big, strong health component.
Speaker 2:The reason for that is because you can't have performance without health. And when people hear the word performance nutritionist, a lot of the time they probably think sports and you'd be right. Like most of my client base are are athletes. But like we all need to perform on a day to day basis. We all need to perform as you know family members, business And I think people are starting to hopefully understand the roles that their lifestyle has on their nutrition, that their nutrition can have on their lifestyle and their mood state as well.
Speaker 2:So I think that's really my driver in that sense is to kind of be sincere in my values and my outcomes.
Speaker 1:Well, I have to say when I was hearing you speak then about your desire to help people to make a real change, even you mentioned sort of the fear and mystique of nutrition. It actually made me feel a bit emotional because for a long time, know, and like so many people, I've struggled with, you know, perception of weight or, you know, some of my friends struggle because they're perceived and not being big enough others as being too big and and the kind of demystification and empowerment that you guys do. Is just so important what I'm wondering and Paul in terms of think one of the things that makes you unique and all the coaches actually is you're quite empathetic. I was just wondering, where do you think that empathy and time for you know, you must hear the same story over and over again from your different clients and groups that you work with. Where do you think your empathy has come from?
Speaker 1:What shaped you that way?
Speaker 2:I think think how I was raised was a big component in that. You know, I had some very, I was raised in a mostly matriarchal kind of household. You know, I was raised by my auntie, my cousin was there. My mum was there as well. Grew up in a small, sorry, it's my calendar beginning of me.
Speaker 2:I grew up in a kind of like smallest Terrace Council house just over the water from Liverpool. And I think that kind of watching people struggle through certain areas, you know, through the 80s and that and unemployment and really understanding and watching people within my family and like my friends, parents, and stuff go through really stressful, emotional times made me appreciate the I guess looking back historically made me appreciate that like, you know, that everybody has struggles and outwardly, people kind of, everyone has struggles and, you know, and, and to be able to just be, just be in that environment and aware of it and seeing people have difficult times, you know, like watching people struggle with unemployment and and self esteem and everything else and I know that's not necessarily related to nutrition directly or but I I just I don't know. Think it's just something that maybe it's an innate thing. Maybe it was the way I was raised. I definitely grew up in a household that was it's difficult to it's difficult to discuss because you don't know what your frame of reference is, right?
Speaker 2:I don't know how other households operate. I've only got my own experience of being me as a child. But discussing our emotions and our feelings was something which was I don't know if it was encouraged as such but it wasn't a problem. It wasn't, you know, like, we didn't talk about our feelings or any issues that we had. I think I come from quite a passionate family generally speaking.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes my empathy and my enthusiasm come over as being overly passionate sometimes, which might make me seem, I can come across as a little bit aggressive. So that's something in terms of my own self awareness that I'm trying to work on because I do care about what I do almost to a fault sometimes, I guess, which can make me be a little bit too, I don't know, unkind. So on one side, I can be incredibly empathetic. But I do think on the other side of it, if someone is attacking my position or somebody that, what's the word, somebody that like if one of my clients is having a tough time, like my natural defensive posture can make me come across as being, it's maybe not understanding of where other people are coming from sometimes, especially when it comes to quackery within the fitness industry. And my mentality shifted as I've definitely gotten older, whether I've got wiser or not, it's difficult to say.
Speaker 2:But as I've gotten older, I've sort of realized that just because someone has come in, not everyone's a Charlotte announced, do you or your clients in and therefore, a certain level of understanding and respect and commonality of ground to have meaningful discussions is important. But I do know that sometimes when I've done some public speaking engagements and stuff, and I've had some quite abrasive conversations, let's put it that way with people. So I don't know if people would say that I'm empathetic all the time. But I think when it comes to like to dealing with people on individual basis. You know like I think ultimately you draw from your own personal experiences.
Speaker 2:Like unless unless you're unless you know unless you're a think even, you know, the most cold hearted of people, unless there's like a genuine, you know, psychological sociopathic level of disorder there, you know, most of us can have had a period of time where something negative has affected us in some way and we just want someone to talk to. We've all been through points in our lives where we felt low. And I think particularly through between my sort of early teens and my early 20s, I lost a lot of people that were very close to me. And at the time, it was, you know, being in that emotional turmoil, which carried through really, I'd say to my mid to late 20s, and really possibly even into my 30s in terms of the impact I had. And it's only when I really started to discuss things and realized that I wasn't weak or I wasn't whatever it might be that really helped sort of me deal with those issues.
Speaker 2:And the reality is that you are right in right in one sense. Like if you just take the emotion out of it and you look at it and like a lot of people say to me, do you not get like sick of listening to people who have the same problems? Can't do it. It's sort of on one side, it's like easy to go, well, yeah. And it's like, you know, why can't people change?
Speaker 2:But on the other side, it's like, when you look at your own journey, my own emotional development journey, that's taken me twenty years to get even remotely in control of my emotions and to be more communicative around those things. And to, I think I've always had a naturally, natural protective and empathetic thing. And I think that comes from, you know, being in a matriarchal caring household, but also being around a lot of women and having that kind of that kind of like natural protectiveness over that, if you want to call it that, then that tied that together with my own personal experiences has meant that, like, you know, my good friend Hugh Hugh Gilmore is a sports psychologist who does some some work within the programs and stuff, you know, like, it's, it's that reality of no one's got really got the right to judge anybody else. Being judged is one of the worst things that we have. So even if I feel, I think sometimes the word that I would feel, even if it's people say like, well, how can you keep having the same conversations?
Speaker 2:I sometimes get frustrated but it's more frustrated at myself for not trying to articulate things or be able to help people overcome their struggles rather than it being frustrated with the individual. Yeah. Or frustrated with their issues because let's look at nutrition as an example. You can't have someone who's had thirty years of terrible nutrition advice, has got low self esteem, who's had a bad relationship with food, who's been named called at school or has been picked on by their family members for the way they look and expect them just a few weeks of having a few nice conversations around mindset to unpick all of that. Like that's just disingenuous.
Speaker 2:So I think when people say like, well, how can you keep, I mean, you know, I've had clients I've worked with for twelve, eighteen months, who maybe haven't made progress in terms of their weight loss and their weight management and on one hand, you could say that maybe makes you a a be a failure as a coach and that's fine and people are entitled to their opinions on that but on the other hand, you know, those people have got a lot of stuff they need to work through and unpackage before they're at a point really where, you know, they they can put themselves at the heart of that and maybe, you know, it's a it's a selfishness issue like they need to be more selfish or I'd say more self centered because they're so giving to other people that they don't have time to look after themselves. Maybe it's a stress management issue. All of those things mean that, no, the same conversation. It might need the same conversation for six, twelve, eighteen months with one individual for them to get to a place and feel supported enough and valued enough themselves in order to go, hang on a second, no, I can do this.
Speaker 2:And I think that's fundamentally as a coach, that's what my role is, It's to not it's to not quit on people when maybe they feel they quit on themselves.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh. That's so powerful. Honestly, I I just feel like we're so lucky to have you and and all the coaches that that what an amazing mindset and and how lucky are we to have someone so invested in our own success and just. Final question for you, Doctor V, and it is quite random but. And this was asked me of me in an interview once and I just find it really interesting what people respond.
Speaker 1:You've been given a turtle. You can't give it away or sell it. What do you do with the turtle?
Speaker 2:Given a turtle can't like a living, breathing live turtle.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I think so. I can talk about anything for a long period of time, so I'll try and keep it short. I am a bit of a bit of an amateur herpetologist. Like, I used to have a bearded dragon. I've always loved snakes.
Speaker 2:So, I just like look after it and nurture it and just like show it off to my mates and be like, look how cool my turtle is and you know, try and look after it as best as I could. Yeah, that's what I do with the turtle.
Speaker 1:Can you give the turtle a name?
Speaker 2:What would I call a turtle? I would call a turtle, that's a really good question, within the context of the turtle program and anyone who's listened to this who knows it, I would call the turtle Marcus.
Speaker 1:It's a shout out to Scott.
Speaker 2:As a shout out to Scott, I would call the turtle Marcus and anyone who's like followed our program who who knows some of the books and the philosophies that we followed and the origins of those philosophies or are just a fan of the film Gladiator, there's a hint to anyone watching this, then yeah you'll know why I call the total Marcus.
Speaker 1:Awesome and Doctor. B just one final thing, If people want to follow you on Instagram, what should they, what's your handle?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. My Instagram handle is my personal in the crowd. Dear me, I got fit so well-being articulate through this. It's doctor underscore doctor underscore p performance. It's not easy to say.
Speaker 2:So d r underscore p underscore performance.
Speaker 1:Awesome. And
Speaker 2:then my athletic performance clinic, which is the other side of what I do is bebetterwithnexus. So be better with Nexus. If you just search top of performance on the search bar or Nexus performance clinic, But I should pop Instagram. Not that I've got a massive social media following, it's a pretty You
Speaker 1:know, have a lot of questions here that I didn't ask about the penis shirtless photos. So I'm a man of such wisdom, but there we go. If you need another trudeau ladies. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's okay. The abs it's it's the year of mass next year, so the abs will be going to We'll
Speaker 1:make a question at the end.
Speaker 2:I'm not I would I would I'd say like I I dunno, I don't know if I'm vain or not. I'm not going to judge you on that one, but yeah. I like to, I like to stay in shape. So yeah, if I, if anyone wants to come in, come in, check out my recipes, my food, the random nonsense I put on there, it's useful. I would say I probably don't put enough nutrition or health content on there as I as I like.
Speaker 2:I just feel a little excited as much as I do. And like ultra running, cooking, and you know, if I can take my top off, all that stuff's on there. So, yeah, if you want to check that out, please feel free. Also, I'm always open to answer any questions and stuff through Instagram and and that kind of things as well. I'm a busy I'm a busy I do try and answer them and please just give me a bit of a a little bit of slack in terms of replying just so I could say.
Speaker 2:I yeah. I work longer hours helping folks so yeah it takes me a little bit of time to get back in touch with people if they do have any questions.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, you're an absolute legend. Thank you for your time this morning and yeah, have an awesome rest of day and yeah, look forward to seeing you on the Octagon.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Jackie. Thanks for all the questions. They were excellently delivered and loved being on this little episode with you.
